|
|
 |
Playing against a long pips blocker |
Post Reply 
|
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search  Topic Options
|
|||
Mild Seven 
Member 
Joined: 07 October 2003 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 449 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Playing against a long pips blockerPosted: 15 February 2009 at 10:08 |
|||
|
Hi guys, I am looking for advice on how I should approach playing this kind of player. I have played against long pimples players before, but they were choppers. I have recently met a player who does not chop, but rather stays close to the table and plays a block/control game with long pimples. I am a pretty conventional offensive player. My typical rally consists of an underspin serve, brushing opening loop with the forehand (regardless of the return side), and develops from there. What gives me trouble is that the spin reversal is not very pronounced without the chopping motion. The ball that is returned after a loop has me guessing as to how much underspin is there, and I usually overestimate (ball goes long on the second loop). Because I do not have a sense of how much underspin the ball has, I do not have the confidence to drive the ball either. Currently, I have very little strategic direction against this player. Usually, against choppers, I serve a no spin ball and loop afterwards. Can someone knowledgable outline several of the most common scenarios I will face when playing this kind of player and how I should approach playing them? I want to understand this style of play. If anyone can enlighten me on my opponents thought process that would be great too. For now, I am just reading the section about playing against long pimples on about.com. Edited by Mild Seven - 15 February 2009 at 10:13 |
||||
|
Mizutani/T25/T64
|
||||
 |
||||
| Sponsored Links | ||||
|
||||
|
Roundthenet
Member
Joined: 23 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 545 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 February 2009 at 12:14 |
|||
|
Watch the ball really closely. Try to play with a ball with a sharp logo like Bufferly. You can pick the spin and float by looking for it.
Take things from his point of view. What are his main objectives? What are his advantages? He wants you to be indicisive. He wants you to make mistakes. He wants you to turn quickly so that your footwork is wrong. What are his disavantages? His rubber is passive. He will be vunerable to third ball attacks and his serve return on his normal rubber will be weak. Watch the ball...really watch the ball. Never take your eyes off it. |
||||
|
||||
|
black sheep
VIP 
Joined: 12 November 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 614 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 February 2009 at 12:54 |
|||
|
This all assumes you opp just blocks with more or less frictionless lp's
#1 - Long serve with backspin to the lp's, when blocked back, will give you a medium to long return with topspin on the ball - what more could you ask for here to win the point :) . #2 - Long serve with topspin, when blocked back, will get you a medium to long return with backspin - again what more could you ask for to get in with a good loop [i prefer this serve to #1 as the topspin on the ball when serves kicks more away from the table on the returners side] #3 - Long fast floated ball, when blocked by LP's tends give the opp problems, but again the return will probably be medium to long float - close your bat over the ball and drive/loop it!!! #4- Never, NEVER EVER take notice of your opponents stroke/bat angle when returns come back from lp's - the stroke they play has no real bearing on what spin is on the ball. #5- You have more choices when playing against an lp blocker than the blocker himself, you can control what spin to put on the ball to get back for your next shot - so it only takes some thought before starting the rally as to how you want to win the point. #6- If you loop the ball and its returned by the lp's it obviously a heavily chopped return, so just loop one, push/drop one, loop one, push drop one, until you get a ball to win. #7 - If you loop the ball and want to loop the next one - DON'T!! do it with effort and try to lift a really heavily chopped ball - this will probably get you another EVEN MORE heavily chopped ball if its blocked back - simply open the face of your bat a little more [good to practice this one if you can] - this will compensate for the extra chop on the ball and you can still drive/loop through it. b.t.w with non-frictionless lp's you have to take more notice of what your opp is doing - he can vary the spin a little more that frictionless and its a whole other story!!! BS. Edited by black sheep - 15 February 2009 at 13:11 |
||||
|
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur!
|
||||
|
||||
|
Der_Echte
Member
Joined: 13 November 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 530 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 February 2009 at 14:48 |
|||
|
From what you describe, it sounds like your opponent has some Friction LP, not frictionless. That would account for the returns not being as predictable. You know exactly what you are going to get with frictionless. You could reduce the spin on your opening shot to get a more predictable return, but that would require a change in how you open your point. If this opponent does not hit with his LP or step around to hit FH with whatever rubber he has, then you can pretty much setup what you want by changing pace and direction using not so much topspin until he gives you a ball that you would like to powerloop. With this opponent who just blocks, you do not seem to be under pressure, so you don't always have to finish the point on the 3rd or 2nd/4th ball. You can afford to be patient. Looks like this opponent might hit a passive shot even if he had a chance at a drive. (If he can twiddle/step around and attack, it sure plays havoc with your strategy) He will do something in your rally to give you an angle to put away a ball you can predict. It will just take some work to discover what it is. Surprisingly, BH attacks are good setup and finishing shots as you can disguise your placement better to get a more presentable finishing chance and also finish it with better uncertainty for him. Of course the Friction LP gives him some room for spin manipulation, but if you give him less spin, he has less to work with and change. My Friction LP playing friends really hate playing against a consistant opponent who gives them next to no spin returns. I like to try to finish the point on my terms first, but against this kind of player, I have to take my time. It can be annoying to play as the blocker kinda rushes you by taking it off the bounce and always keeping on the table. You just dont have a whole lot of time to setup. Getting him to move some to the net and side to side helps, but you can make a lot of the same errors trying to play short when you are not exactly sure of the spin. Reducing the spin and probing how he acts to your different returns helps you figure out how to effectively setup and finish.
Close to the table LP blockers want to just be consistant and let the other guy make the mistakes. Simple strategy. Just block off the bounce, entice the oppponent into a lower percentage attack, watch him swat shots out ot into the net, and bock the attack if it lands. More spin and at least medium speed is the LP blocker's friend. This kind of LP blocker can block and push all day long and take advantage of an opponent's overwillingness to attack without correctly reading the spin while he has less time to figure it out.
Friction LP can take a lot of the spin off the ball, but spin still affects it. Changing the type and amount of spin pays off just like against inverted. In rallies, the opponent can get a good enough read, but you can disguige and fool the opponent much more on serves. getting the opponent to think you serve some bottomspin (while serving a short topspin) will get him to open his racket a little more and make his return come high enough for a higher percentage finishing powershot. If you push really well, that might be your best chance to change the spin some and get a return a little higher from a mis-read that you like. Serving deep no spin as surprise is good enough to get at least a half long return to punish, but a good LP blocker has good touch and will later drop those low and short. Keeping the opponent guessing somehow works better and it sure takes some probing, patience and figuring out to do.
I sure lost my share of matches against this kind of opponent at first and now am a little over 70/30 if he is around my level.
About.com TT forum has an advanced level pushblocker on the forum named "pushblocker" and I'm sure he would be willing to tell you some stuff as long as you are not to face him next week.
|
||||
|
BTY TBS 999/Gambler Outlaw
FC Bayern all the way baby! |
||||
|
||||
|
Roundthenet
Member
Joined: 23 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 545 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 February 2009 at 19:53 |
|||
|
I find the friction pimples harder to play, Lash.
|
||||
|
||||
|
wiggy63
Moderator Group 
Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 7069 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 February 2009 at 22:37 |
|||
|
Golden rules for playing LP blockers;
(1) don't loop two ball on the trot.
(2) Push long to the Pips and loop the return.If it comes back push long back to the pips.
(3) Never introduce sidespin to a rally (including serves)
(4) play deep constantly.
|
||||
|
everything I've ever said is only IMHO
|
||||
|
||||
|
evenstevens
Member
Joined: 25 November 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 373 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 February 2009 at 00:20 |
|||
1) unless you can judge the spin
3) i find that the ball pops up with side and adds a different dimension
4) they may not be good around the net
|
||||
|
||||
|
pingpongpaddy
Senior VIP 
Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 February 2009 at 02:21 |
|||
|
A lot of good advice so far:
I'd add If you have a club mate who uses lp, instead of avoiding him practice and play games with him, learning how to chop and float to his pimples (just chop steeper if its pips)long term, this will pay dividends over the years .Against the blocker counter hitter lp player just take take the ball later and rally for a while until you get the timing for the right one to hit. I think the difficulty here may be the quality of yr fh & bh topspin. I dont mean power, rather that you need unshakeable confidence in the consistency of yr fh and bh stroke consistency wise. If you develop that, this style of player wont give you any probs Edited by pingpongpaddy - 16 February 2009 at 02:23 |
||||
|
pingpong for all!
darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki) fh flarestorm II MAX bh Yasaka PB-1 1.3 chopping blade (for fun): Stiga allround Hurricane2 1.8 Chop & Drive 1.5 |
||||
|
||||
|
haggisv
Senior VIP
Joined: 27 July 2005 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1771 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 February 2009 at 05:26 |
|||
Hmmm, so it's not possible that this player is actually more skillful than a double inverted player? Sounds like you've not come accross a skilled long pip player, or you would not be saying this  I agree with the strategies and advice given, but skilled long pip player will continuously be mixing up the spin, pace and placement...this takes just as much skill (possible more) than it does to be a consistant double inverted player... |
||||
|
FW+
FH: JUIC 999 BH: TTMaster Fireproof II |
||||
|
||||
|
S'n'B
Member
Joined: 26 January 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 February 2009 at 07:22 |
|||
|
I mostly agree with the suggestions, especially the golden rules from wiggy. Some addition:
-Playing deep is very important, be it drives or pushes.
-Keep lower stance (crouch) and stand closer to the table. It allows you to maintain pressure with off the bounce flicks and direct attacks. Deep n fast attacks with less spin will be troublesome for them. Cut the balls to the side if ur really unsure of the incoming spin.
|
||||
|
||||
|
wiggy63
Moderator Group
Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 7069 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 February 2009 at 11:18 |
|||
Agreed, there are also other dimentions if the guy hits well with his other wing. If you can read the spin, you don't need the 'golden rules'
 |
||||
|
everything I've ever said is only IMHO
|
||||
|
||||
|
Wilis_784
Member
Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1916 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 16 February 2009 at 22:35 |
|||
|
I always found that to keep looping was the key. Whenever I started pushing against these players (Leighton or Tendler for UK members) I made things much harder for myself.
The main factor here though for me is how strong their other wing is and how good they are at getting it in. if they're not so aggressive then you can afford to pick your ball, if they are aggressive then you're playing right into their hands by giving them nothing pushes over the table after 1 topspin! |
||||
|
Jonyer Hinoki FL
Tenergy 05 2.1 Black Tenergy 05 2.1 Red |
||||
|
||||
|
Mild Seven
Member
Joined: 07 October 2003 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 449 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 17 February 2009 at 01:17 |
|||
|
Thanks a lot for the replies guys.
|
||||
|
Mizutani/T25/T64
|
||||
|
||||
|
evenstevens
Member
Joined: 25 November 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 373 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 February 2009 at 03:33 |
|||
|
[QUOTE=Wilis_784]I always found that to keep looping was the key. Whenever I started pushing against these players (Leighton or Tendler for UK members) I made things much harder for myself.
AGREE!!! even though leighton does slap like a biatch! |
||||
|
||||
|
slaplink_pat
Moderator Group
Joined: 14 March 2003 Location: Philippines Online Status: Offline Posts: 1708 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 February 2009 at 15:01 |
|||
I play against a pretty high level pimples blocker. I particularly have no problems against him though many players even higher than my standard are beaten really badly. I agree with you on (2) and (4) but there are many instances that (1) and (3) are necessary. I mix up sidespin loops and topspin loops a lot just to force errors from him as your number one rule is not part of my game play. Even in services I mix up no-spin and side-topspin serves and get occasional pop ups. Most of the guys that are beaten by this old guy go passive after an offensive shot which gives room for him to create good angled returns. More experience against these type of players is the best remedy. Edited by slaplink_pat - 18 February 2009 at 15:05 |
||||
|
Blade: Galaxy T-11 FL
FH: Haifu BWII 36º BH: Haifu BWII 38º Testing: Blade: Galaxy T-11 FL FH: Yinhe Venus 2.2mm 36º BH: Yasaka Pryde Blade: Galaxy T-11 ST FH: BTY T05 BH: Dawei IQA |
||||
|
||||
|
wiggy63
Moderator Group
Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 7069 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 February 2009 at 15:27 |
|||
|
Just to explain, those golden rules are advice for players who either are not used to playing against this style, or really struggle to read the spin against such players, not advice for you seasoned guys, if you read the spin you can do whatever you want, if he lets you. The biggest give away is, the player who reads Pips well plays to them and treats them as the opponents achilles heel, the player who is not confident and does not read, tries to keep away from them, and tries to finish the point as early as possible, because the longer it goes on, the less clue he's got.
|
||||
|
everything I've ever said is only IMHO
|
||||
|
||||
|
Wilis_784
Member
Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1916 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 February 2009 at 17:51 |
|||
|
I don't read the spin...
just close my eyes and swing through it  |
||||
|
Jonyer Hinoki FL
Tenergy 05 2.1 Black Tenergy 05 2.1 Red |
||||
|
||||
|
wiggy63
Moderator Group
Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 7069 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 18 February 2009 at 18:06 |
|||
I've noticed
you did well against Brian Hill the other year, he had you on the ropes.. |
||||
|
everything I've ever said is only IMHO
|
||||
|
||||
|
Wilis_784
Member
Joined: 19 May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1916 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 February 2009 at 03:23 |
|||
|
He's mad me on the ropes twice and i started playing really well both times
|
||||
|
Jonyer Hinoki FL
Tenergy 05 2.1 Black Tenergy 05 2.1 Red |
||||
|
||||
|
JKC
Senior VIP
Joined: 19 September 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2601 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 February 2009 at 04:17 |
|||
|
Flick it and then loop repeatedly hoping to win the point before you get too tired. Then hope the ball goes a long way between points so you can have a rest.
|
||||
|
||||
|
pingpongpaddy
Senior VIP
Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 20 February 2009 at 16:06 |
|||
Of course its possible, but then the the problem is no longer one of style as posed in the question. BTW haggis I used lp myself as long ago as 77/78, and I have had a bit of contact with strong lp players over the years |
||||
|
pingpong for all!
darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki) fh flarestorm II MAX bh Yasaka PB-1 1.3 chopping blade (for fun): Stiga allround Hurricane2 1.8 Chop & Drive 1.5 |
||||
|
||||
|
Boll_rules
Member
Joined: 10 December 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1035 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 February 2009 at 12:19 |
|||
|
Your loops have to be consistent.
|
||||
|
Timo Boll Spirit- ST
Tenergy 05 BH Tenergy 64 FH |
||||
|
||||
|
wiggy63
Moderator Group
Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 7069 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 22 February 2009 at 12:39 |
|||
superbly explained in great detail, Thanks!
 |
||||
|
everything I've ever said is only IMHO
|
||||
|
||||
|
Thunder Boult
Member
Joined: 27 October 2006 Location: StraightOutta.. Online Status: Offline Posts: 984 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 February 2009 at 03:12 |
|||
|
Assuming the player has LP on BH and normal stuff on FH...
Although I am a very good pendulum server I would not use any pendulum serves in the fisrt game (well might at the very end if I could not think of any thing else to do). My serves in the first would be with my BH and would be a mix of short/wide and spinny to the FH and long to the BH (and possibly cross over) with less emphasis on spin.
I would guess that long pushes to the BH would be most effective, but might try a few other kinds of push (if my brain was in gear!).
If the player was not very good (beneath div2 BL) then push one drive one might work very well. ...but LP players of my standard tend to have worked out how to counter that one!
Loop one smash one might work. I sometimes find that if I lreally oad up a top spin then smash aiming for point high up the wall or ceiling the ball goes on every time (I get the same return so make the same smash). This takes a bit of confidence/practice to learn to do, as aiming smashes at the ceiling feels rather counter intuitive at first!
Attacking repeatedly with zero topspin drives in another thing to try. This too requires a bit of practice, especially if you have previously spent hours perfecting a wonderful text book loop drive!
|
||||
|
Donic Waldner Black Devil Carbon Balsa (why can't blades just be called "Kenny" any more!)
FH = Sriver 1.9 Black BH = Tenergy 1.9 Red |
||||
|
||||
|
haggisv
Senior VIP
Joined: 27 July 2005 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1771 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 February 2009 at 05:39 |
|||
<sigh> All I'm saying is that your statement "If you develop that, this style of player wont give you any probs" shows little respect for long pip players...it infer that all you need is a consistant BH & FH to beat players like this... well I can assure you that no matter how consistant your FH & BH are, if you don't read the spin right, you're stuffed... |
||||
|
FW+
FH: JUIC 999 BH: TTMaster Fireproof II |
||||
|
||||
|
Thunder Boult
Member
Joined: 27 October 2006 Location: StraightOutta.. Online Status: Offline Posts: 984 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 February 2009 at 10:18 |
|||
|
Nice one Haggisv.
I practice with an England top 40 LP player and, wow, you need to develop a hell of a lot of areas of your game to a very high standard to deal with his plenary range of shots.
...Then you have to be able to play him in a variety of ways to stop him picking up on and taking advantage of what you are doing.
...Then you would have to develop a lot mentally to actually beat him in a match – he is a great fighter (and talker!) too.
|
||||
|
Donic Waldner Black Devil Carbon Balsa (why can't blades just be called "Kenny" any more!)
FH = Sriver 1.9 Black BH = Tenergy 1.9 Red |
||||
|
||||
|
pingpongpaddy
Senior VIP
Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 27 February 2009 at 21:12 |
|||
In the meantime do you have any advice for Mild Seven yourself? |
||||
|
pingpong for all!
darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki) fh flarestorm II MAX bh Yasaka PB-1 1.3 chopping blade (for fun): Stiga allround Hurricane2 1.8 Chop & Drive 1.5 |
||||
|
||||
|
haggisv
Senior VIP
Joined: 27 July 2005 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1771 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 February 2009 at 00:14 |
|||
|
Fine, twist my words around... you seem to be good at that
 you'd make a good politician I'd love to get back on track and offer Mild Seven some advice as this is one of my favourite topics, if only you'd stop winding me up with your little remarks... Yes I know you'll have a smart answer for this statement as well, so I give up...you win and can have the final say  ,goodbye. So now you can get back on track... Sorry to hijack your thread Mild Seven and others...that was not my intention
|
||||
|
FW+
FH: JUIC 999 BH: TTMaster Fireproof II |
||||
|
||||
|
pingpongpaddy
Senior VIP
Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 28 February 2009 at 00:36 |
|||
|
calm down blue.
|
||||
|
pingpong for all!
darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki) fh flarestorm II MAX bh Yasaka PB-1 1.3 chopping blade (for fun): Stiga allround Hurricane2 1.8 Chop & Drive 1.5 |
||||
|
||||
|
tt4u
Member
Joined: 04 September 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 353 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 March 2009 at 10:52 |
|||
|
We have a good lp player, who is over 70 yrs old, don't move a lot but stands very close to the table and play this counter/blocking game with the lp. He uses a fast blade like an R1 with spinny Chinese rubber on the fh and lp on the bh. His main style is stand very center to the table and cover the fh with the smallest stroke and a somewhat bigger, more aggressive bh lp counter and pick hits (i.e. he like to finishes with the lp because he gets his opponent hit into the net most of the time). You can say he is trying to control the table with fast bh counters/hits. He stands very clost to the table and very firm and seldom leaves the table. This style favors him because he is taller than 90% of the players in the club and he is a long distance runner. It's almost impossibe to break his defense with slower loops because he is very good of not letting an easy pop up happen. You have to practice speed against him. You have to hit loop kills/drives fast enough to overpower him and good enough to hit a few in a row. Most poeple don't practice speed enough. I watch a Timo Boll Video and the radom ball practice that Timo did is what is needed to play this guy. Most players don't recovery fast enough--because they use too much force and not enough speed--to get ready for a second and third fast loop.
Practice speed and playing these old lp players seem easier. The alternative is to be in super physical condition and loop them with a lot of spin and not as fast, but that requires you to be much better than the lp player.
|
||||
|
||||
|
pingpongpaddy
Senior VIP
Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 March 2009 at 13:24 |
|||
|
Sounds like a real character!
Take every opportunity to play him and improve yr game! |
||||
|
pingpong for all!
darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki) fh flarestorm II MAX bh Yasaka PB-1 1.3 chopping blade (for fun): Stiga allround Hurricane2 1.8 Chop & Drive 1.5 |
||||
|
||||
|
Timo22
Member
Joined: 08 December 2008 Location: Indy Online Status: Offline Posts: 460 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 March 2009 at 01:05 |
|||
|
Have LP's been banned or a certain kind of LP's for competition?
|
||||
|
NEW setup: Blade Bty Timo Boll Spirit FL FH: Sriver FX 2.1 BH: Sriver EL 2.1 Blade:Stiga Offensive CR (not WRB) BH:Inspirit UL 2.2 FH:AVX Pronte 2.0 |
||||
|
||||
|
pingpongpaddy
Senior VIP
Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 March 2009 at 01:41 |
|||
|
yes frictionless lps
You can download a current list of approved rubbers from the ittf and take it to your matches if you want |
||||
|
pingpong for all!
darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki) fh flarestorm II MAX bh Yasaka PB-1 1.3 chopping blade (for fun): Stiga allround Hurricane2 1.8 Chop & Drive 1.5 |
||||
|
||||
|
Boll_rules
Member
Joined: 10 December 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 1035 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 March 2009 at 11:54 |
|||
|
Be a consistent looper and you will kill him.
|
||||
|
Timo Boll Spirit- ST
Tenergy 05 BH Tenergy 64 FH |
||||
|
||||
|
PushBlocker
Member
Joined: 06 August 2008 Location: Lakeland, FL Online Status: Offline Posts: 6 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 June 2010 at 18:25 |
|||
I actually have an account on here but don't post a lot..
There have been plenty of good pointers already in this thread. I think that Key to play someone like me is PATIENCE. Don't try to power-loop twice in a row into the pips. If your first loop comes back, push the ball and wait for your next chance to attack. Pick your hits and when you see the chance, go for the kill.. It's a good idea to wait for the right shot and try to put it away as often the block against hard hits are very dangerous. As others mentioned, playing deep and long into the pips is very effective. However, what I will do is to push and block so aggressive and deep myself to keep my opponent under pressure and forcing them into producing a short ball which I will then angle. Once I'm forcing the short angle play on my opponent, I do have a huge advantage. As long as my opponents can keep me from using the angles, they'll have it a lot easier. Another important thing is to avoid heavy spin serves as the spin will work against the server. Sure, it depends on the friction level on the pips, even after the frictionless ban, there are still low friction pips that will create reversal. Blockers love those ;-)
One important prerequisite for any player to beat a upper level pushblocker is to be able to play safe from forehand and backhand as GOOD long pips blockers will exploit your weak side.. I have won matches, even against 2200 players by playing every single ball into their backhand and only if they'd try to play forehand from the backhand side, I'd block wide into their forehand. This means that if you don't have a solid game, you will probably get killed. I personally am 2225 rated and I can guarantee you that this is not easy with a style like mine. At higher level, nobody is "fooled" by what the pips do.. You can't just win with the material.. Strategy and playing patterns are critical to be able to compete at a higher level.
|
||||
|
Current USATT Rating: 2225
|
||||
|
||||
|
ghostzen
Member
Joined: 09 May 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 June 2010 at 04:01 |
|||
|
playing any consistent player like this you'll need good variation, control and like the man says patience. It's a good idea to remember all pimple rubbers have weaknesses. they have rules to playing against them but also rules for playing with them. it's learning to exploit it. High spin and less/no spin do affect the pimples as do pace,placement and height of the shot and speed. it's basically Heinz 57 varieties needed to beat someone who's really good at pimple blocking. I don't totally agree that you should not attack hard more than once into the pimples.if you play loop,push loop they will gain a rhythm and that makes it harder for you. break that rhythm and well life becomes easier If you can do it consistently you will win simple. If you can't then use placement, pace variation and spin variation and instead of you being controlled by the pimples you will control what the pimples can give you back. |
||||
|
||||
|
Useless1
Member
Joined: 18 September 2009 Location: Earth Online Status: Offline Posts: 126 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 June 2010 at 13:46 |
|||
|
Hmmn rules, yes I suppose I like that way of thinking. Knowing which ones you can break, when to do so and who you can break them against can really help. |
||||
|
"With the laws of force and motion as our shepherd we will see the errors of our ways"
|
||||
|
||||
|
PushBlocker
Member
Joined: 06 August 2008 Location: Lakeland, FL Online Status: Offline Posts: 6 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2010 at 14:40 |
|||
Well, if you keep the spin on hard attacks low (flat hitting) you can indeed hit more than once.. Most opponents that try to loop hard 2 - 3 times in a row usually miss eventually. If they flat hit a few times in a row, it's a different story. Another thing that you have to understand is that a really good blocker will not give you a slow block. Those blocks will be fast and well paced, easily catching the attacker out of position for his next attack. My personal game is all about placement and messing up the opponents timing..
|
||||
|
Current USATT Rating: 2225
|
||||
|
||||
|
ghostzen
Member
Joined: 09 May 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 07 June 2010 at 23:59 |
|||
|
A good question might be....What stops you from playing pushblocker ? I'm guessing a fast flat hit ball into the pimples is very hard to deal with or a deep high spin ball or high float ball where you have to generate pace and judge angle off the pimples. This can cause a weaker return setting up a flat kill or angled loop cross court maybe?. I've played a few good LP players over the years and once their in the zone it's quite hard to stop them but once you understand what they don't like and break the rhythm then things become easier as they normally only have a plan A with the pimples which once you can learn to deal with moves the advantage from them to you. |
||||
|
||||
|
pingpongpaddy
Senior VIP
Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2101 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 June 2010 at 01:19 |
|||
|
I like your style pushblock.
Try and post here more often! |
||||
|
pingpong for all!
darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki) fh flarestorm II MAX bh Yasaka PB-1 1.3 chopping blade (for fun): Stiga allround Hurricane2 1.8 Chop & Drive 1.5 |
||||
|
||||
|
wingspan
Moderator Group
Joined: 16 January 2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2173 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 June 2010 at 02:30 |
|||
Me too, good stuff! |
||||
|
"Why is Ping-Pong so important to certain people? Actually, why isn't it important to everyone?"
|
||||
|
||||
|
wiggy63
Moderator Group
Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 7069 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 June 2010 at 13:08 |
|||
|
The best LP blockers i have played are the ones who only use them to break the game down in order to get their f/hand attack in, the ones who rely on the rubbers to win points out of the opponents missgivings are easy meat, infact I have not succumbed yet to one, its particularly useful if you have an equally consistent B/hand loopdrive, you can't be manuvered out of position as Pushblocker rightly suggests. Constant looping into the Pips is also possible, as long as you 'scoop loop' ie don't compete with the spin, but lift it with an open bat (dummy loop) which more often than not results in the blocker pushing the ball in the net. My favourite ploy though, is to push really long to the f/hand and watch them come right across to play with the pips, leaving an open table and a ball with nothing on it to attack, it does not matter how quick and well placed their response is, if you can attack with both wings they are usually dead meat, but if they do get the ball back, just push long again. As I say though, If they are quality players with a structured f/hand game ( think Nigel Eckersley) it is a different kettle of fish.
The achilles heel of the Pip blocker is a player who does not give them a ball to block, they can read the pips and cope with the placement, so once a deep backspun ball has been delivered, limiting the pushblocker to depth and placement only, they can attack with confidence the 'no spin' return.
Oh, one more thing, stay away from using side spin.
Edited by wiggy63 - 08 June 2010 at 13:16 |
||||
|
everything I've ever said is only IMHO
|
||||
|
||||
|
PushBlocker
Member
Joined: 06 August 2008 Location: Lakeland, FL Online Status: Offline Posts: 6 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 June 2010 at 17:03 |
|||
That should work fine and is a good strategy. However, the goal of a good long pips blocker is to keep you out of position so that you have to take high risk shots. Placement is our #1 weapon.
For me, one of the most uncomfortable opponents are those who play it safe.. For example, there's a pretty well known 2100 - 2200 level player (he used to be higher, closer to 2300 before) from MA who plays a controlled heavy topspin game. His name is Larry Bavly. All he does when playing close to the table long pips blockers is to produce medium speed topspins (with pretty heavy spin but not as much speed) from forehand and backhand. Once he receives the first higher return, he goes for the kill.. This is very uncomfortable as he doesn't make mistakes. His topspins are relatively high, so there's no risk that they'll go in the net and very spinny which always brings them down. They are hard to attack to due the heavy spin. Blocking them with the pips is not all that effective as the attacks are slow enough to allow the ball to lose spin until it's back at his side and he can loop it again and again and again. It's frustrating to play a player that can consistently do it.
|
||||
|
Current USATT Rating: 2225
|
||||
|
||||
|
PushBlocker
Member
Joined: 06 August 2008 Location: Lakeland, FL Online Status: Offline Posts: 6 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 June 2010 at 17:06 |
|||
I'll try.. I'm active on way too many forums (not just TT related) and actually have relatively little time...
If you are interested in my style, check my youtube videos. I have no recent videos.. My latest video is from Last November, playing a game against Jennifer (Yue) Wu who is a 2500 player..
My youtube username is "grandsportc3"
Olivier
|
||||
|
Current USATT Rating: 2225
|
||||
|
||||
|
PushBlocker
Member
Joined: 06 August 2008 Location: Lakeland, FL Online Status: Offline Posts: 6 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 June 2010 at 17:18 |
|||
Here in the US, the best long pips blockers all have a big forehand or a effective long pips flat hit.. 5 of the top 6 long pips blockers are that way. From all the players who block with long pips here in the US, the top ones are Rob Van Lier (originally from the Netherlands) who blocks on the backhand and power-loops from the forehand, Sakda Timsuwan (originally from Thailand) who loops forehand AND backhand (twiddling) with inverted and mixes in long pips blocks, but his main game is a 2-wing looping game.. This guy perfectionized the twiddling game. Another well known blocker in the US is John Mark Wetzler who plays at similar level like the other 2. He chop-blocks with his backhand to set up forehand kills. There's a young chinese girl that plays a long pips blocking style. She is somewhere in the Northeast of the US but I don't know much about her. Then there is Robert Shahnazari from California who blocks and hits with his pips on the backhand and also forehand attacks to finish the point. I'm about 5th or 6th in that list and the only pushblocker who does not attack frequently.. All I do is to attack easy to attack balls.. I usually don't take too much chances unless I play against a defensive player. I'm forced to attack against those..
|
||||
|
Current USATT Rating: 2225
|
||||
|
||||
|
wiggy63
Moderator Group
Joined: 26 March 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 7069 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 June 2010 at 17:28 |
|||
|
You are a mirror image of a guy in England called Malc Trueman Pushblocker, covering the f/hand wing well with a hammer grip b/hand, malc is a master of the quick directional switch as you portray in your clips, which I enjoyed watching. We also have Steve Hall (hallmark rubbers) who hits well on his f/hand
|
||||
|
everything I've ever said is only IMHO
|
||||
|
||||
|
PushBlocker
Member
Joined: 06 August 2008 Location: Lakeland, FL Online Status: Offline Posts: 6 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 June 2010 at 18:58 |
|||
I'll watch the video when I'll get home from work.. Youtube is blocked at work... People of my style are often underestimated and that often is a good thing. I rather play against someone that thinks that he can beat me easy than against someone who thinks that I'm strong. This style makes opponents look like they are playing poorly while the reason for them playing poorly is because I'm messing up their timing and position the ball where it's most uncomfortable for them and they'll make mistakes that look unforced while in reality, I'm forcing them to take risky shots. Talking about Hallmark rubbers.. I think that Phoenix is one of the rubbers least sensitive to spin, especially on a fast balsa blade.. It can be played very close to how Frictionless pips were played, just with less reversal..
|
||||
|
Current USATT Rating: 2225
|
||||
|
||||
|
Post Reply
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
