Table Tennis / Ping-Pong guide Digg it! del.icio.us Google it! Yahoo! Reddit! Furl! Blogmarks!Blinklist! Simpy it! NetVouz! Tagza!  
Forum Home Forum Home > Table Tennis Forums > Coaching
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Tailored advice
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

Tailored advice

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Honey View Drop Down
VIP
VIP
Avatar

Joined: 09 November 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1176
Post Options Post Options   Quote Honey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tailored advice
    Posted: 05 June 2010 at 15:28
Over time I tend to meet lots of different players all with different targets and ambitions they wish to fulfil. I personally think its really important to know what a player wants to achieve and to tailor the advice.

For example I have learn't (originally from this forum) that a short serve can have more disadvantages than advantages, and its better to go for half length (sometimes people refer to this as short though). Serving too short means you will simply get a short ball back (can't do much with), and gives you less time to recover if they play long. However, at a lower level I've often taught players how to do a really short low serve, because for them it can be a point winner/opener as players of that level will often return long/uncontrolled. As a player of this level improves however it would be important to make gradual progression, developing their service tactics, knowledge and skill by showing them how a short serve may no longer be of use to them.

I actually think that juniors of today are battered and blinded with 'pro' advice that is simply of a standard way beyond what they [at their present level] may be able to achieve in their understanding and application of the given advice. Gradual progression ensures that a student is constantly challenging themselves at a level just above their own, something that is really important.

Do you tailor advice to the level of the player (or just above their level), or do you give advice based on what a player should be doing irrespective of the level?

I've seen both done, and thought I'd ask the question on here. I've been reading up alot on this kind of thing after reading Syed's book and have moved on to reading some of his references which inspired this question, very interesting stuff.




Edited by Honey - 05 June 2010 at 15:30
Impuls Speed 2.0mm
Primorac Off- (AN)
ETTA Rating: Senior Men's No.512 (678) July '10
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
BeGo View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 27 September 2009
Location: Indonesia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 72
Post Options Post Options   Quote BeGo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 19:28
Originally posted by Honey

 

Do you tailor advice to the level of the player (or just above their level), or do you give advice based on what a player should be doing irrespective of the level?


As a beginner with unique style (off course unique, no one play exactly the same Tongue), I want that every advice that come to me already specially made just for me. 

I hate person  who came to me and see how I play, and before long, they say that "You SHOULD do it like this", and when I do like they say (or my interpretation of what they say), it ruin my game, and they said "That because You did not follow my advice.", and the more I try to follow their advice, the more my play worsen. When I give up and reboot to my first way of play (the one taught by my first teacher), my play came back and some how became even better, and They say, "See, it work, isn't it?"ConfusedCry, and when they realize it, Their advice return to "You SHOULD do it like this", and it keep looping. 

To be exact, I hate the word SHOULD, MUST, or likewise, unless it is backed up by logical reason and logical fact, and actually help my game.

Note. Above illustration actually not happening in Table Tennis, but happening in Tennis and Golf. I have similar sample in my table tennis play, but not as obvious.

I remember with my first teacher. He got a hard time teaching me from the basic, even asking Me directly, thoroughly, what I do outside of sport. In tennis, my 1st teacher teach me to play left handed 2 handed both side although I am right handed. It took him more than 2 week to came with that solution, and during that time i play right handed, and He didn't mention why (Or may be I am too young to understand that). In golf, my teacher need 1 month to decide to change my grip from normal to extreme strong, and He mention why, "Your right hand too weak compared to your left, you too left eye dominant, Your can't rotate your waist well, etc, etc...." They truly observe before make some advice, not just see, IMHO. 


Butterfly Defense Alpha,
Butterfly Tackiness Chop II 1.1 mm and 1.9 mm,

Hurray! Now I can play again; waiting game over!
Back to Top
wingspan View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2173
Post Options Post Options   Quote wingspan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 20:07
Good topic.  My experience is that most coaches give very generic advice, i.e., the same advice to everyone.  It's pretty rare to find someone who has the ability to observe a particular player and give the right advice for them at that time that will help them to get better.  It's a real talent to be able to do that. 

I'm sure that most amateur players are "battered by pro advice" (excellent phrase!) that is actually pretty useless to them.  We all know that advice because we've all been battered!  But what is the advice that would be really useful to them (us)?  That's the tough part.


Edited by wingspan - 05 June 2010 at 20:07
"Why is Ping-Pong so important to certain people? Actually, why isn't it important to everyone?"
Back to Top
Honey View Drop Down
VIP
VIP
Avatar

Joined: 09 November 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1176
Post Options Post Options   Quote Honey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 June 2010 at 20:12
Originally posted by wingspan


I'm sure that most amateur players are "battered by pro advice" (excellent phrase!)


I think battered is quite an english word, quite common for us here...

Phrases like:

"I got battered last night" (drunk)
to
"I got battered in that match" (lost)

Often pronounced without the t's Tongue

I've learn't a few language things on here. Like Aussies extensive use of the word 'heaps'. I never use it, apart from in baking!
Impuls Speed 2.0mm
Primorac Off- (AN)
ETTA Rating: Senior Men's No.512 (678) July '10
Back to Top
wingspan View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2173
Post Options Post Options   Quote wingspan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2010 at 20:45
Hmm yeah, not so common here, neither is heaps anymore but I think in the 50s and 60s it was more in vogue.

In any case I like this thread.

If I were to put you (not you specifically Honey!) in front of an average amateur player that you could watch in a match for 15 minutes and then asked one "what is the one piece of advice that would most benefit this player?" how many of us would give the right answer?  How many of us would even give a useful answer?  I bet it's pretty hard to even come close.
"Why is Ping-Pong so important to certain people? Actually, why isn't it important to everyone?"
Back to Top
AznTTprodigy View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 November 2006
Location: Bremerton, WA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1735
Post Options Post Options   Quote AznTTprodigy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 June 2010 at 21:50
I would say "Your focus needs more focus" LOL
I think some of the best advice I received during a match was from a kid who was younger than me, and had been playing for a shorter length of time. Given, he was a better player than me, and had more serious experience. I think it depends on the view, and the situation.
At least when it comes to training, you have the time to really look at the situation and say, "okay, here is what is going wrong.".
But I think we, like anyone else, only see the highlights. Unless you're a really experienced and world class coach, you miss the small things like, the transition between your FH and BH is bad, but it's not the stroke, it's your footwork. Or the fact that the player is looping well, but really only in one dimension, it's just that their opponent is simply not giving them enough angles, so it just seems like a lucky shot when the opponent miraculously puts them off guard with an out-of-place, or differently paced shot.
The most useful tool IMHO is not having some kind of high level, high dollar coach. Something will always be overlooked. As with a newer method of observation described by Masaaki Tajima(US National Certified Coach),  he would video tape a match being played by one of his students, and sit and watch the match, with a specifically laid out set of papers. On these papers were categories, boxes etc. for the observer to fill in for every point. Messed up the opponent's serve, missed their own serve, pushed long, hit long, third ball, second ball etc.
What he said was more interesting was, comparing the results of the match with asking what his student felt was going wrong and right, were two somewhat different views.  But regardless, the chart helps immensely with tailoring a training regimen for the player to give them game specific training goals.
The 'Junking' begins...
Experiment Number 13:
Blade: Galaxy LQ-1 Modern Defensive
FH: 2.0mm Gambler Wraith
BH 1.5mm Gambler Reflectoid
Product testing:
No Current Testing
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.68
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz