Detrimental play

   Can certain shots that you play be detrimental to your own game?

This is certainly how I felt about a player I played last night. He had a very spinney backhand backspin serve. Now, I'm not quite sure how it works, but I returned it back with a very flat bat. I didn't need to use much action at all, and if I touched short, all his backspin remained on the ball and created a shot that had a very shallow double bounce (almost skimming because of the heavy backspin), he wasn't able to return these shot again, pushed long, letting me get on on the attack. 

The other option was for me to push long. Again very little action, just guiding the ball really and all his backspin remained on the ball. He didn't have the technique to loop the heavy backspin ball (that he had created) and he missed 100% of these, no kidding.

The point is, he was doing the hard work for me I felt. He created all that backspin and I just guided it back, and his spin remained on the ball so much so that he couldn't control his own spin.

Whats the deal here? His reaction to my return of his serve implied to me that he thought I was putting the spin on the ball. I was doing nothing, he put the spin on the ball, I just gave it him back.

Another more common detrimental effect is players hitting the ball too hard relative to how fast they are able to recover. I really feel you should only hit the ball as fast as you are able to recover (unless its a clear kill winning shot).

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Honey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List VIP Joined: 09 November 2008 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1175	Post Options Post Reply Quote Honey Report Post Quote Reply Topic: Detrimental play Posted: 19 July 2010 at 15:29
	Can certain shots that you play be detrimental to your own game? This is certainly how I felt about a player I played last night. He had a very spinney backhand backspin serve. Now, I'm not quite sure how it works, but I returned it back with a very flat bat. I didn't need to use much action at all, and if I touched short, all his backspin remained on the ball and created a shot that had a very shallow double bounce (almost skimming because of the heavy backspin), he wasn't able to return these shot again, pushed long, letting me get on on the attack. The other option was for me to push long. Again very little action, just guiding the ball really and all his backspin remained on the ball. He didn't have the technique to loop the heavy backspin ball (that he had created) and he missed 100% of these, no kidding. The point is, he was doing the hard work for me I felt. He created all that backspin and I just guided it back, and his spin remained on the ball so much so that he couldn't control his own spin. Whats the deal here? His reaction to my return of his serve implied to me that he thought I was putting the spin on the ball. I was doing nothing, he put the spin on the ball, I just gave it him back. Another more common detrimental effect is players hitting the ball too hard relative to how fast they are able to recover. I really feel you should only hit the ball as fast as you are able to recover (unless its a clear kill winning shot).
	Impuls Speed 2.0mm Primorac Off- (AN) ETTA Rating: Senior Men's No.512 (678) July '10

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silent hunter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 31 March 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 123	Post Options Post Reply Quote silent hunter Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 July 2010 at 15:44
	I have seen this many times before and done it a few myself. I think it is that he has been coached to the point of having this wizband serve and no game to back it up. If he is being coached then in a while he will have the top spin to go with it but at the moment he doesn't. If he isn't being coached then, he seriously needs to reaccess his game!! I think many players have parts of their game that don't fit into their overall plan, but they like it and so don't want to discard it or just haven't analysed their game well enough to realise that those parts are wrong for them.

Tabletennissam Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Visit Members Homepage Add to Buddy List Senior VIP Joined: 15 September 2003 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2562	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tabletennissam Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 July 2010 at 16:12
	It's quite a common thing, really. I know that when I play 'better' players I adapt to the over the table stuff that goes on and consequently I also tighten up my serves. However, by tightening up my serves to stop them getting in I consequently stop myself getting in, too.
	TopspinTV

Honey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List VIP Joined: 09 November 2008 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1175	Post Options Post Reply Quote Honey Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 July 2010 at 16:40
	The guy wasn't a weak player by any means. Plays in the top division in my area. I just felt on this occasion (playing against me) this particular area was really letting down his game. It stood out out a sore thumb to me. When he did less spinney serves because my service return isn't good enough to the point I can get on top of the rally here, he actually faired alot better. I just found it interesting like I say because he was doing all the work. I guess that is TT though for you.
	Impuls Speed 2.0mm Primorac Off- (AN) ETTA Rating: Senior Men's No.512 (678) July '10

silent hunter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 31 March 2006 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 123	Post Options Post Reply Quote silent hunter Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 July 2010 at 17:21
	That reminds me of the time my brother was playing a much better player and doing really well. He had got 8 and 9, I think, in the first two sets. Then in the break before the third the other player's mate came over and said " His serves don't have any spin on them really. " My brother lost the third rather badly!

Useless1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 18 September 2009 Location: Earth Online Status: Offline Posts: 126	Post Options Post Reply Quote Useless1 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 July 2010 at 17:22
	Do they play this shot in a match with the same poor success rate? or were they practicing a different shot to give them more options for when they play a match. I'm sure it's fairly commom for a fair proportion of players to select to play shots where the percentages aren't in their favour during matches. However, practice is practice and I for one play a lot different in a match to practice, though my style is very similar I both look to play shots I wouldn't normally and at times make it easier for my opponent or more difficult for myself.
	"With the laws of force and motion as our shepherd we will see the errors of our ways"

Honey Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List VIP Joined: 09 November 2008 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1175	Post Options Post Reply Quote Honey Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 July 2010 at 17:30
	I totally agree useless one. I do the same. By separating them in my head I also relieve myself of the pressure of 'I beat him in practise so I should beat him in a match'. Maybe he was practising it but this serve seemed to me a well grooved part of his game. It just made me think about how certain shots/serves may be detrimental when we don't realise it. I'm sure I have serves shots which I play and then find myself out of position because I've played them too fast/too spinny etc. It's important to know your own shots and therefore know what to expect back, its a fine skill.
	Impuls Speed 2.0mm Primorac Off- (AN) ETTA Rating: Senior Men's No.512 (678) July '10

Useless1 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Member Joined: 18 September 2009 Location: Earth Online Status: Offline Posts: 126	Post Options Post Reply Quote Useless1 Report Post Quote Reply Posted: 19 July 2010 at 18:31
	I agee with you and I know at least one player there who had that kind of serve in there game and is working on integrating and improving there forehand loop off of deep pushes for next season. I agree some serves / shots work against some players and not against others. Having these tools is great, but we need to work out when to use them and when to leave them in the locker. Serving itself is an art for me, i don't consider each serve to be an individual entity, agaisnt different players and even at certain times (against a given player) some serves will be more effective and your selection / order and variation of serves are important just like the execution itself.
	"With the laws of force and motion as our shepherd we will see the errors of our ways"