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Returning top spin serve

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Mmski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Mmski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Returning top spin serve
    Posted: 23 July 2010 at 07:46
I just started going to a local club earlier this week and found myself evenly matched with a handful of people there (which was surprising!) although one guy gave me a lot of trouble. I won the set 14-12 on game 3, but the next game.. I lost 2-11, all because of his top spin serve. They were always far back and high enough to loop, but I kept sending almost every single one off the table.  When I would just try to block them, and send them short, he was able to get a quick smash in, and beat me every time. Most opponents I play against, use backspin or sidespin on their serves, which I've learned to loop pretty easily if they are long.

Am I likely coming up too high with my loop? Bat angle? Combination of both? I find myself advancing pretty quickly in this sport, but this shot is really giving me hell.
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garwor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote garwor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2010 at 11:20
If it is long, go for flat hit while ball is arising, or topspin it with pretty horizontal move. If it is short I have no idea, I never returned any, this is how I'm losing most of matches.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tpgh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2010 at 17:33
if its short, you can only flip it or push (by that i mean quick snap of the wrist with bat angle nearly vertical and its pretty hard to do)
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pingpongpaddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2010 at 20:00
Hi mmski
If its a long topspin serve, the most effective thing is probably to kill it or counterhit it as strongly as you can. By trying to loop it you are adding an unnecessary complication. If you cant get in a big shot on it, perhaps because your opp places it cleverly, then why not just do a gentle drive to a good place and try and work yr way into the point.
If its a short topspin serve, though the easiest return is a block or flick, this maybe falling into yr opponents tactical plan.
In that case, returning with a heavily chopped push may be better. This was one of waldners favorite ploys. However it takes a bit of practice and skill to get right   
good luck
pingpong for all!

darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki)   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote wiggy63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2010 at 22:40
Is it a 'kicker' ? ie more about spin than pace, making the second bounce jump at you?
everything I've ever said is only IMHO
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Baal2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2010 at 00:03
One thing is that if a certain thing has happened several times, you need to believe it is happening.  Maybe there is something about the opponent's service  motion that makes you simply not able to see that it is topspin coming at you.  So you pop it up.  That means you really need to believe that it is topspin regardless of what it may look like and react accordingly.  A lot of people will make the same mistake repeatedly.  Of course if the opponent is mixing all kinds of serves that look the same, that means he is just good.  But if you repeatedly miss the same thing and the opponent has figured out that he can just keep doing the same thing repeatedly for free points, that is another thing.  I see it a lot with players just starting.  They seem unable to believe the evidence of their own eyes.

By the way, everything on a return of serve has to be "smaller" than other shots.  Even if you are attacking a long serve, the stroke is smaller than if you are looping or counterlooping in the middle of a point.  You bring the paddle back less far in preparation, you don't swing as hard, and you don't follow through as far or as much.  The ball will still move plenty fast.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Baal2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2010 at 00:05
If you consistently miss topspin serves that are long, you may need to be holding your hands just a little bit higher in your ready position.  It is very easy to drop your hands lower (gravity does it for you) but lifting them higher suddenly is much harder.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2010 at 00:50
The kicker sounds a likely explanation. If thats the case IMO its akin to being deceived by LP 'ball wobble'  from a twiddler That is the brain is expecting a slightly different speed/trajectory than what you actually get. Probably the cure is watching service very carefully indeed until your brain has absorbed the right clues from the serve action
pingpong for all!

darker SHAKE speed 90 (1 ply hinoki)   
fh flarestorm II MAX
bh Yasaka PB-1 1.3

chopping blade (for fun):
Stiga allround
Hurricane2 1.8
Chop & Drive 1.5
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